Kirsten W. Larson’s journey to her debut trade book began with, you guessed it, a book. The name Emma Lilian Todd, mentioned briefly in the back of another picture book, grabbed her imagination and wouldn’t let go. Nothing deterred her, not even the challenge of collecting hard to find information on her subject. Or was it the challenge that made her want to do it even more? In any event, Wood, Wire, Wings: Emma Lilian Todd Invents an Airplane (illustrated by Tracy Subisak, Calkins Creek), was the perfect fit for Kirsten, who used to work with rocket scientists at NASA. Best of all, there’s more to come with her next book also taking kids up into the heavens with The Fire of Stars: The Life and Brilliance of the Woman Who Discovered What Stars Are Made Of, illustrated by Katherine Roy (Chronicle, Fall 2021). We’re glad that Kirsten, who lives near Los Angeles with her husband, lhasa-poo, lots of LEGOs and two curious kids, found time to visit us on THE KIDS ARE ALL WRITE!

What was your inspiration for Wood, Wire Wings: Emma Lilian Todd Invents an Airplane? How did you first hear about her and why did you want to write a book about her?

I first heard of Emma Lilian Todd in Andrea Beaty’s picture book, Rosie Revere, Engineer (Abrams Books). Towards the back of the book, illustrator David Roberts included a list of female firsts. He mentioned Lilian Todd as the first woman aircraft designer, with an image of her airplane. I was instantly intrigued.

Why do you think she’s not been well known up until now? While you used diary citations, magazine articles and websites, there were no biographies devoted specifically to Emma Lilian Todd in your credits. Is your book the first biography devoted exclusively to her?

Nancy, you are such a close reader! You are right: this is the first biography of Lilian Todd for adults or children. Most of my research focused on primary sources, especially magazines and newspapers, as well as secondary sources about the early days of aviation. Why was Lilian Todd been lost to history? It’s a mystery, because her work was covered extensively by newspapers of the day. If I had to guess, I would say it’s because we often tell the history of science and invention as one of success stories. If someone isn’t first or fastest or best, we often write them out of the story, instead of acknowledging that people contribute to discoveries and help build bodies of knowledge in different fields.

Your bibliography was incredibly extensive. How long did the research take you? Did you face any challenges in locating these sources? Were there any unexpected discoveries that helped you?

The research process never really stops for me. After about seven months of research, I had written a couple of drafts, but every time I revised, including with my editor, we’d find new areas I needed to research to flesh out a scene or to make sure the book was as accurate as it could be. I will be forever grateful I connected with two researchers, Bill Rogers, who studied Lilian as a passion project, and historian Michael Smith at the National Model Aviation Museum. We shared every scrap of information we could find about Lilian. One huge disappointment was not being able to see Lilian’s personal scrapbook, which sold on eBay years ago. After several years I was able to trace and contact the buyer, but he refused to let me view it, even watermarked images of the pages. I hope he’ll make it available to a museum some day.

Tell us about your book’s journey from idea to acquired, edited manuscript. Did it go through many changes? How would you contrast the manuscript at the start of your journey to the finished book?

I think the spirit of the book is essentially the same as when I first wrote it 2014. I always saw Lilian as a tinkerer at heart, a person who couldn’t help but make things. Her persistence was always a big theme too, even in 2014. Yet there isn’t a single line that survived from first draft to published book. After the first draft, I wrote the book several different ways over a couple of years. Carolyn Yoder, my editor at Calkins Creek, critiqued the draft at two different conferences. Even then, she bought it only after I revised and resubmitted the draft my agent sent to her. After Carolyn bought the book, we did another round of edits. When illustrator Tracy Subisak finished her dummy, I cut quite a bit more since many of my words were no longer needed. The whole experience was a good lesson in tuning into the heart of the story, learning to write in scenes, and understanding how much of the book illustrations can carry.

I love the way you built a picture of her as someone who liked to tinker with things from the time she was young. You also took care to show in her dismantling of the clock and putting it back together that she was not always successful. Did you include this particular anecdote purposefully to create tension about whether or not she would succeed with her airplane?

What I came to understand by writing this book is that failure is the lifeblood of invention and engineering. Nobody succeeds on the first try. What really counts is what you do in the face of failure. Do you give up? Or do you keep going. I wanted to show that Lilian had grit and inquisitiveness even as a child. She wasn’t afraid to dive in, get dirty, take risks, even if it meant ruining the family clock or dulling her mother’s sharp scissors. I also wanted to show what tremendous support Lilian had from her mother, which was quite unusual for that time period.

You also had a wonderful page about inventions during her lifetime on a page that’s spare on text. Did you always conceive of that page as being illustrator driven?

That was one of the pages where we realized we could cut most of my text after we saw Tracy’s amazing illustrations! Originally my text went something like this: “As she was growing up, newspapers across America brimmed with stories of brand-new creations: telephones and typewriters. Subways and sewing machines. Inventions making life faster, safer, or easier.” When we saw Tracy’s dummy we deleted my text and opted to add dates and labels to the illustrations so readers would know what they were.

How did your journey with this book change you personally?

I really learned to write working on this book, and I’ll be forever grateful to Carolyn for pushing me to capture the emotional truth, not just the facts of the story. My first drafts were so much like a research paper. I had much to learn about pacing, how much of the story illustrations can carry, how to write in scenes. At the end of the day, I think Lilian’s story resonates with me personally because my writing process is so much like her engineering process — design, test (send out to readers), tweak (revise). And you have to decide what you’ll do in the face of failure (rejection). Will you give up? Or will you redesign and make your story stronger? Like Lilian I’ve learned to redesign and forge ahead in the face of failure.

How did it change your idea of what makes a picture book take flight? In working on this book, did you identify with Emma Lilian Todd in that you had to figure out how a picture book works even as you helped this very complicated — and lovely — work of art soar?

I’d written almost 25 work-for-hire books before this book sold, so I had an inkling that books are a team sport. But I didn’t realize how big a picture book team is — from editors to art directors, fact checkers, the illustrator, and of course sales and marketing who help get the book into readers hands. In order for a book to take flight, you truly need a well-oiled team.

What do you hope readers will take away from Wood, Wire, Wings?

I hope the book will normalize failure as part of the creative process whether it’s writing or inventing. I want students to realize nobody gets it right the first time. Passion and perseverance will carry you through.

What’s up next for you?

I am looking forward to THE FIRE OF STARS: The Life and Brilliance of the Woman Who Discovered What Stars Are Made of (Chronicle Books), the dual narrative of the formation of stars and of astrophysicist Cecilia Payne-Gaposchkin. I have a third picture book under contract. I’ve also been working on a graphic novel (a picture book “failure”) and several more picture books, as well.

Check out this engineering design activity with Kirsten here and visit her on social media on the links below!

On her website: kirsten-w-larson.com

On Twitter: @kirstenwlarson

On Instagram: @kirstenwlarson

On Pinterest: @kirstenwlarson